(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

S: Oh my! I feel almost as shocked as Fanny at Mr. Crawford’s proposal! If we hadn’t been convinced of his attachment to her in the previous chapter I would think the same as Fanny, that his proposal is absurd and he and his sister are only trying to make a fool of her. 

It is happy news, however, that William is now a lieutenant!

R: Poor Fanny! I feel like I’ve said that a lot, but the circumstances just seem to keep getting worse. Or at least, piling on her too rapidly for her to handle each one. We see her joy at William’s promotion, then almost immediately she goes into a kind of horror as she realises that Henry Crawford is proposing to her. Add to that a note from Mary Crawford that blatantly gives her blessing on the union and poor Fanny is completely discombobulated. 

S: There are so many emotions we encounter in Chapter 32! I completely understand both Fanny’s and Sir Thomas’s reactions, although his words are rather biting. I think, though, they were said in anger, as we see later in the chapter that he is trying to make up for them. He reminds himself that Fanny’s disposition is innocent and frail (at least he believes it to be) and that perhaps it’s the excitement and fear of the future that made her refuse Mr. Crawford. Obviously, words cannot be taken back and Fanny’s integrity with not slandering her cousins is not made known to Sir Thomas, but still he truly does care for her, as is evident by his trying to shut down Mrs. Norris’s berating of her. From his point of view, Fanny really is being selfish. Again, she’s caught between a rock and a hard place.

R: This chapter starts out well, with Sir Thomas realising that Fanny never has a fire in her little room upstairs and deciding to rectify the situation, but quickly takes a turn when he reveals that Mr. Crawford is downstairs waiting to speak to Fanny. He’s shocked that she intends to refuse him. I’m not sure it would have been slander to reveal to Sir Thomas how his daughters had acted over Mr. Crawford, but it was very loyal of her not to do so. I think she would have been perfectly justified. With one daughter married and out of the house, it wouldn’t have signified much, and when Julia returns, enough time likely would have passed that Sir Thomas wouldn’t have done much about it.

S: It is frustrating, though, that he has so little faith in his niece and much more in a man he has barely known. An interesting commentary on personalities, I think. The fact that Mr. Crawford lied to him, perhaps believing her refusals to be in jest considering how narcissistic he is, is frustrating.

R: I know! He seems to understand Fanny’s character so well. How can he not trust that she might have a good reason for not wanting to marry Mr. Crawford? Even if she can’t articulate it to him?

S: My favourite part in this chapter is when Mrs. Norris insists that she is the one Sir Thomas wants to speak to, when it is really Fanny, and their butler, Baddeley, insists that, indeed, it is not Mrs. Norris, but Fanny.

R: Mrs. Norris is so ridiculous! I do love the butler’s response. He knows what’s going on, certainly.

S: Oh my goodness! Chapter 33 makes me laugh so much! I rolled my eyes at Mr. Crawford’s narcissism, chuckled at Fanny’s confusion and anger, felt happy about how Sir Thomas assured her that he only wanted her well-being, was delighted that Mrs. Norris’s character was finally announced to the reader (even though we pretty much already understood what it was), and shook my head at Lady Bertram’s silliness. I am curious to see how Edmund takes this news!

R: I’m glad that Sir Thomas tempers himself in how he speaks to Fanny in this chapter. Despite Mr. Crawford’s continuing hopes, he seems to see that Fanny is serious in her refusal, though he hopes that Mr. Crawford’s continued persistence will overcome her objections. 

S: Part of me was surprised at Edmund’s willingness to entertain the idea of Mr. Crawford pursuing Fanny, and the other part of me was not. Edmund himself is so taken with Miss Crawford that it makes sense he should want Fanny to be married as well. It is interesting how well he knows Fanny and yet how much he is projecting onto her. 

R: I was really surprised by Edmund’s immediate acceptance of Mr. Crawford’s suit of Fanny. I would have thought he’d have a better understanding of Henry Crawford’s character and see that he is not a good match for Fanny. I am glad that Edmund has the sense not to immediately speak of it to Fanny, just gives her support.

S: I loved Mr. Crawford’s and Edmund’s discussion on Shakespeare and on reading aloud. 

R: I thought that was interesting, as well as how Mr. Crawford’s excellent reading affected Fanny. It makes me wonder if she could come to care for him at some point, though I would hope that she wouldn’t let one good thing overcome the bad. Mr. Crawford doesn’t seem to have the same distaste for the clergy as his sister does, based on his conversation with Edmund. 

S: I pity Mr. Crawford, and am glad to see finally that Fanny’s affections for him will not come easily or by anything he thinks is important. He is a bit foolish in how he addresses her, and is still very full of self-importance, but it does appear that he wants to know what Fanny thinks, which is good.

R: That did show Henry Crawford in a better light than anything up to this point, despite his self-importance; and he also seems to have an understanding of how his previous behaviour has affected Fanny’s opinion of him.

S: Edmund’s and Fanny’s walk and discussion are very interesting. I could tell the moment he began speaking of Miss Crawford, though Miss Austen did let us know through Fanny’s perspective, and it seems to me that he sounds a bit like Mr. Collins from Pride and Prejudice. What Mr. Collins learnt by rote memorisation about women, Edmund seems to have learnt by intuition. 

As frustrated as I am that he is back onto the idea that Miss Crawford will love him and that he pushes Fanny to speak, in a way I am glad that he does because Fanny is finally able to tell him how she really feels about Mr. Crawford’s character. Still, Edmund continues to press and desire that Fanny return Mr. Crawford’s affection and that makes her second guess herself, which does irritate me. It is good to have other’s opinions sometimes, to see things from another perspective, but it also seems that Fanny is still not actually being listened to: ‘She feared she had been doing wrong: saying too much, overacting the caution which she had been fancying necessary; in guarding against one evil, laying herself open to another…’.

R: This conversation is wonderful and frustrating by turns. I love that Edmund is understanding of Fanny’s feelings and doesn’t press her too much, though I still think it’s more than it should be. I’m also frustrated with him for giving everyone a bye for their behaviour during the play, and for discounting Fanny’s perspective on Henry Crawford’s behaviour with Edmund’s sisters. As their brother, he should have been more concerned that they weren’t behaving appropriately and safeguarding their virtue. Actually, as the eldest, that should have been Tom, but Edmund is definitely the more mature and well-behaved.

S: I don’t know how to feel right now; just like Fanny, my feelings are conflicted about what I think should happen.

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

R: Apparently, Edmund does still have hopes of marrying Miss Crawford. I shake my head at him. I think as the readers we can hear the death knell of that relationship. Or the rest of the story is going to be Edmund’s woes because he does end up marrying her.

Miss Crawford continues to show a significant amount of solicitude to Fanny. At first I was grateful for her immediate willingness to help Fanny prepare for the ball, but then she has to go and make Fanny super uncomfortable by saying that the necklace was originally a gift from her brother. I can’t decide whether this was meant to be malicious or mischievous, or a legitimate attempt to, I don’t know, give her blessing for the match if Fanny wishes to allow Henry Crawford’s suite. 

S: I’m also unsure what to think of Miss Crawford’s gift of the gold chain to Fanny. I feel like there’s a bit of manipulation going on with that particular interaction, but I’m not sure. 

Yet again, Sir Thomas has proven just how likeable of a character he is. Not only does he offer to throw a ball for William and Fanny, but he makes sure Mrs. Norris cannot put in her two cents…or pence. 

R: Poor Fanny is so worried about the ball and all the attention she’s likely to receive. Mrs. Norris doesn’t make things any easier the day of. 

I love that Edmund thought of Fanny and got her the chain to wear her brother’s cross with, but still frustrated with how he’s handling things with Miss Crawford. He says that he sees her flaws, but puts her virtues on par with Fanny’s own. He says, ‘I know her disposition to be as sweet and faultless as your own.’ He continues to hold out hope for marriage even as Miss Crawford says that she will never dance with him again because, ‘She never has danced with a clergyman, she says, and she never will.’

S: Chapter 27 made me laugh so much, just as much as it made me roll my eyes. 

I love that Edmund knew exactly what Fanny needed for the present from her brother. It’s no surprise that Fanny has feelings for Edmund even though she tries to deny them. I am, however, disappointed that Edmund also wants her to wear the necklace from Miss Crawford, and that he holds Miss Crawford in such high regard, still intent on marrying her. As you say, he ‘puts her virtues on par with Fanny’s’, and that part was very much a ‘roll-the-eyes’ moment. 

It is so adorable when Fanny is fawning over the unfinished note to her in Edmund’s hand; I laughed aloud. 

It’s also amusing to me that it didn’t occur to her that the ball was for her coming out and that no one seemed to think it important to tell her, although I suppose she thinks so little of herself that it really hadn’t occurred to her. 

I know she wishes that Edmund would give up on Miss Crawford, and I have to agree, so it made me almost as happy as she when they are interrupted in their conversation just before they need to get ready for the ball and that the cross didn’t fit on Miss Crawford’s necklace but did on the one from Edmund. 

R: Oh, my goodness, yes! The bit with Edmund’s note was sweet, and the fact that Fanny had not a clue that the event was actually her coming-out ball was both funny and sad. Mrs. Norris has her so convinced of her unimportance that it never even occurs to Fanny.

Mr. Crawford asks Fanny to dance the first two dances with him, which makes Fanny happy because she wasn’t left to languish, but also makes her nervous because of his attention. Miss Crawford isn’t upset at her own gifted necklace being preempted by Edmund’s; in fact, she seems rather delighted by his gesture. 

Then poor Fanny finds out that it is her duty to open the ball. That is, to lead things off in the first dance, and she is mortified. Fanny doesn’t want all the attention, and it places her above many other ladies of higher rank. 

S: I really love that Fanny’s uncle wants to honour her, albeit a bit late, probably, though perhaps in his mind it was for her own protection from his girls, Mrs. Norris, and society in general because of her quiet nature.

R: Miss Crawford tries to ingratiate herself to the Bertrams by praising Fanny, and I’m just not sure what she’s about. She doesn’t want to marry a clergyman, but she keeps acting as if she’s still interested in Edmund. When she and Edmund dance together, she continues to speak badly about the clergy. Does she think she’ll convince him to not take orders?

S: That’s what I’m thinking. It seems as though she thinks that the more she tells him she hates the church and clergy that Edmund will choose another career, but this, to me, goes to show how little she really understands about how he feels about his faith. 

I also think Miss Crawford’s insistence that Fanny knows something more about Mr. Crawford’s visit to London is weird. She either really doesn’t understand their relationship or is trying to ingratiate herself, as you’ve observed, with at least one person in the family since she knows that Sir Thomas is not a fan of hers. I believe she knows she is not as liked as she could be. 

It makes me so happy that Sir Thomas recognises that Fanny wants to spend as much time with her brother as possible and kindly insists that she go to bed much before the ball, held in her honour, has ended. He really is a good father figure.

As an aside, Lady Bertram is so funny and so very oblivious. I was very happy that we saw very little of her or Mrs Norris in these chapters. 

R: The next chapter has the families, but especially Fanny and Mary Crawford, dealing with the departure of Edmund, William and Henry Crawford. When Edmund doesn’t return when he’d originally promised he would, Miss Crawford tries to get information from Fanny, afraid that he will have found someone else to marry while staying with his friend who has several sisters. Miss Crawford seems like such a mass of contradictions. Despite her feelings about his vocation, she still appears to want to marry him.

S: She really sounds rather foolish fishing for information. I suppose I can’t blame her; it appears she’s realised she actually does like Edmund and is unhappy he’s away. 

I do feel for Fanny. She is caught in the middle and it appears she is unable to speak her mind to anyone or allow herself to acknowledge her feelings toward Edmund. 

I have to say, I really liked the scene with Fanny and her aunt and uncle; it was so quiet and comfortable, very companionable silence they have, even though the mood was sad because it was only the three of them. Although, again, Lady Bertram really is in her own world and Sir Thomas is not, it appears, going to burst her bubble. 

R: Finally, for this section, we get what I think is the rather stunning revelation that Henry Crawford has developed real feelings for Fanny. He’s still horribly rude about her aunts when speaking to his sister, but his original plan of stringing Fanny along as he had with her cousins seems to have fallen to the wayside. 

S: Chapter 30 is rather revealing! I am not surprised that Mr. Crawford ends up wanting to marry Fanny, but apparently Miss Crawford is. I think he might be putting Fanny upon a pedestal much like Edmund is putting Miss Crawford upon one. I don’t know that I agree with him that the Admiral would like Fanny, but perhaps we will find out. 

I’m very interested in seeing how this will all play out! I really don’t want Edmund to end up with Miss Crawford or Fanny to end up with Mr. Crawford; I’d like to see Fanny and Edmund together, because it appears they would compliment each other very well. 

R: I agree! I have no real recollection of the details of the story, so it’s almost like I’m reading it for the first time. The first few chapters were pretty boring to me, but I really feel like the story has picked up and I’m eager to move on.

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

R: Chapter 21 caught my interest for a couple of reasons. I was really surprised at Edmund’s disparaging comments about Mr. Rushworth. I don’t remember him saying anything like this previously, so it seemed like a sudden turnaround. In a similar turnaround, Miss Bertram is suddenly fine with marrying Mr. Rushworth, despite being given an out by her father. Austen does say that her answer might have been different if he’d asked a few days earlier, but there we are. And the chapter moves rapidly on past the wedding and getting both Miss Bertrams out of the house.

Also of note are Edmund’s highly complimentary comments to Fanny about Fanny, which send her into a tizzy of embarrassment. She is still concealing that she has feelings for Edmund. He is also adulatory about Miss Crawford, wishing that his father weren’t being quite so resistant to having anyone but the family around after his return.

Then we get what I think is a pretty significant blow to Edmund’s hopes for his not-yet-existent suite of Miss Crawford. She says, ‘I meant to be too rich to lament or to feel anything of the sort. A large income is the best recipe for happiness I ever heard of.’ As we know, Edmund intends to take orders, which is hardly ever a lucrative career. While she may like him, I don’t think Miss Crawford has any serious intentions toward marrying Edmund.

S: I have to say that after this chapter, I think Sir Thomas is my favourite character. He might be quiet and enjoy less of the gaiety to which his children have become accustomed, but he truly does love his children and Fanny. It was so sweet the way he spoke with Maria about Mr. Rushworth. 

I thought it was a little odd the way Edmund teased Fanny about having grown up so prettily; it seemed out of character for him, but I might attribute that to his spending so much time around Miss Crawford. It made me a little frustrated that he said Miss Crawford is the most discerning woman he knows because in actuality I think Fanny is the more discerning, as well as being gracious with it. 

I was also surprised at how quick the wedding was! I’m wondering if that decision will come back to bite Maria. It made me laugh out loud when Austen says that Lady Bertram was less emotional than Sir Thomas at the wedding!

R: I agree that Fanny is far more discerning than Miss Crawford. Miss Crawford is good at reading people and manoeuvring them around to her way of thinking, except for Edmund. He seems at least somewhat able to resist her machinations. 

Chapter 22 has Fanny becoming a much desired visitor at the Grants’ home. Miss Crawford is bored since both the Miss Bertrams are away from home. Her motives don’t seem entirely selfish, however – she does treat Fanny well. 

S: This is a surprise! Fanny is truly able to come into her own now, or at least beginning to. I know she is not necessarily a close friend to Mrs. Grant or Miss Crawford, but her days are at least less filled with her Aunt’s criticisms.

Obviously Edmund and Miss Crawford have different goals in life and I wonder what this will mean for Edmund – will he try to pursue something different than the church or will he stick to his guns and keep his integrity?

My favourite part in Chapter 23 is the interaction between Sir Thomas and Mrs. Norris when she insists that Fanny walk to the Grant’s house for the dinner party: ‘Walk!’ repeated Sir Thomas, in a tone of most unanswerable dignity, and coming farther into the room. ‘My niece walk to a dinner engagement at this time of the year? Will twenty minutes after four suit you?’ Seriously, I love Sir Thomas! 

R: Sir Thomas really seems like a different character from the beginning of the book, but I like it. After the way her aunts and cousins treat her, other than Edmund, it’s nice to see someone consider Fanny’s well-being.

S: Indeed!

I’m so happy that Fanny was able to speak her mind to Mr. Crawford while they were playing the card game. I know she was embarrassed afterward, but he needed to be taken down a peg. I was very interested that Miss Crawford is now steeling her heart against Edmund. How funny she thought she had so much sway over him!

R: My earlier question was answered in this chapter. Miss Crawford was really interested in trying to get Edmund to marry her, but having realised how opposed their perspectives on life are, she seems to think better of it. And Edmund, I think, is starting to realise as well that she wouldn’t be a good match for him. I certainly couldn’t imagine her as a serious clergyman’s wife.

S: I was not expecting Mr. Crawford to try and win Fanny’s love. I mean, looking at his character it now seems obvious that he would try with Julia and Maria gone, but I kid you not I gasped out loud when I read what he means to do! 

R: I wanted to slap Henry Crawford at the beginning of the chapter. He’s so callous in his plans for Fanny, and Miss Crawford, too, in her indifference to his actions. I’m glad he started to realise Fanny’s merit.

S: I’m so glad that Fanny has been able to have time with William, even though it only made Mr. Crawford more determined to seek her love. I don’t quite know how to feel about Miss Crawford’s indifference toward her brother’s scheme. She did try to discourage him, but the fact that she isn’t going to warn Fanny is a bit frustrating. I love that Sir Thomas and Edmund both kept Mrs. Norris from interrupting Fanny and William’s reunion!

R: Sir Thomas continues to surprise me, but I’m grateful for how he’s helped Fanny’s brother and made him so welcome to come visit Fanny. Sir Thomas and Edmund running interference to let Fanny and William have some time to visit alone was brilliant! It really showed their understanding of their own family’s shortcomings.

S: Yes!

I know I’ve said it already, but I really, really like Sir Thomas. I think Fanny is surprised at how much he actually cares for her and her brother and I wonder if the rift between them was more due to her timidity and his stoicism. 

R: I’m a little worried about what Sir Thomas has in mind in regard to Henry Crawford and Fanny. She would never think of setting her cap at him, but Sir Thomas might become convinced that it would be a good match for Fanny, especially since Henry is showing interest in her.

S: I’m also a little nervous about that. 

Austen’s jabs at Mrs. Norris are delightful, as well as her jabs at the Crawfords and Lady Bertram. She is so good at showing caricatures of human nature! 

It is unfortunate that Miss Crawford, rather than being happy for Edmund and his chosen career, is angry that he does indeed aspire to be a good parson and appears to be unconcerned with fixing up the Thornton Vale house so that it appears better. Edmund is very wise – if something is done in the name of vanity is there really a reason to do it? It seems like he would rather use that money on what’s needed as opposed to cosmetics.

R: Everyone is being so peremptory in making over the house that Edmund hasn’t even moved into yet! And he still has the grace to offer Henry Crawford a place to live at will.

S: I am very interested as to what Sir Thomas is hinting at when William talks to Fanny of dancing and promotion! It seems Sir Thomas is planning something, but we’ll have to wait and see – I could be wrong. 

The story is definitely progressing! It feels as though we’re leaving the second act and entering the third and I’m excited to see how it all ends!

R: I enjoyed these chapters much more than the last set. I felt like the story made some actual progress and is headed somewhere interesting.

S: I agree! Things are really starting to pick up and I’m really enjoying this more than I was.

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

S: We left Fanny visibly shaken from her encounter with everyone trying to make her do something she was unwilling to do, and I’m so happy that she has a room of her own to retreat to, even if it was a sort of cast off no one else wanted. She strikes me as the type who finds enjoyment in the ordinary and sees the potential in things others overlook.

R: I’m so glad Fanny has that space, too. She really needs it to be able to get away from everyone when they’re being overbearing. I enjoyed the descriptions of all the decorations and things that she has around the room. I like that Fanny takes pleasure in and finds use for items that others have rejected because they aren’t perfect.

S: Exactly! She is so gentle.

And then there’s Edmund. The more I read of him whilst he is smitten with Miss Crawford, the less I like him. Although, I must say that his conduct reminds me of my own when I’m trying to reason myself into something I know is wrong or that I had a deep conviction of. How human! And Fanny has no idea what to think now that her stalwart cousin has chosen a different path from the one he had previously so gallantly trod.

R: Oh, I agree entirely. And poor Fanny! She’s almost utterly abandoned even by Edmund. I sort of see his reasoning in preventing bringing outsiders in to witness the foolishness of his sisters, but it does smack very much of him giving in to temptation, though he doesn’t seem to be truly tempted to join in. I think it’s more of a case of doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. 

S: I agree, which usually makes it more difficult to make a wise decision. 

In Chapter 17 we find that Fanny is not the only unhappy person in the house; Julia is also frustrated and grumpy, although her emotions are perhaps less for a noble cause. Everyone is so wrapped up in their own doings and emotions.

R: This is going to go so, so badly. I’ve read it before, and I don’t recall what happens, but I think this is going to be an unmitigated disaster. The whole thing is going to come crashing down around their ears.

S: Soon, Fanny finds herself helping everyone, and listening to all their complaints. How exhausting! I would retreat as she did. Unfortunately, it mattered little as both those who were causing her the greatest distress soon sought her out. I don’t know what bothered me more about this chapter: the fact that Edmund is so blinded by infatuation or the fact that everyone takes advantage of Fanny and her one place of solace is now littered with memories that hurt.

R: Poor Fanny, the sounding board for everyone’s problems, great and small, and they manage to draw her into the theatre scheme, even if it is mostly peripherally. The problems between Mr. Rushworth and Miss Bertram seem to be coming to a breaking point. And Edmund is making me so frustrated! I suppose it might be a bit much to expect full maturity from him, though. He is a young man in the depths of his first love, presumably. I love how this chapter ends on a cliffhanger!

S: When I came to the end of the chapter I just had to keep going! For this book I’ve been able to read about a chapter at a time and then take a break because so many of the characters frustrated me, but the book seems to be picking up speed and I couldn’t wait to see what would happen!

The return of Sir Thomas was quite amusing! I very much enjoyed seeing a new side of him, though I do wonder if this was his true personality and he felt he had to be stoic because of how his daughters and oldest son act. Then again, perhaps it was simply the fact that he was finally home and really had missed the people most precious to him – including Fanny. He seems particularly happy to see her and I’m hoping this means she has a new ally.

R: I was surprised but pleased by Sir Thomas’ reaction to seeing Fanny. I felt like he’d been fairly indifferent to her before he left. Perhaps he came to appreciate her sense while he was away, especially in light of what is going on while he is gone.

S: Then, of course, Sir Thomas discovers that his room has been taken over and that his loved ones have been influenced by the type of person he rather dislikes. I honestly do not think Sir Thomas is a mean person; I think he just doesn’t quite know how to balance affection and discipline in his home.

R: I agree with you about Sir Thomas. I think that can be a difficult line to walk with one’s children – showing them love, but maintaining appropriate discipline.

S: I am happy that Mr. Yates and Mr. Crawford are gone! Sir Thomas, though seemingly a dictatorial force to his children, has their best interests at heart, desiring to uphold the family name in respect. I really do dislike Mrs. Norris, and even though Sir Thomas ceases to argue with her, I have a feeling he has her number. At least Edmund was kind enough to make sure his father knew that Fanny was innocent in the scheme; that made me happy.

R: Edmund is back in my good graces with this move! And I’m glad things end before the play actually goes forward. I think it would have been a far bigger deal if Sir Thomas hadn’t arrived until after the fact, or in the middle. I’m not sure if all of this was on the level of ruining his daughters’ reputations, but I imagine it might have opened up the household to censure from their neighbours. What others think of us shouldn’t be our primary reason for concern about our behaviour, but I think the family could represent how we should present ourselves to the world as Christians. 

S: That’s a good point and one, I think, of which Edmund is keenly aware, as is his father, and most definitely Fanny. It’s not that they’re being arbitrary and stubborn; it’s because they understand that they must set a godly example. I’m very interested to see what happens next, now that order appears to have been restored to the home!