This conversation will contain spoilers for the movie, so if you haven’t seen it yet we suggest you watch it before reading over our thoughts. Further, we decided to present this blog post a little differently than usual by each writing out our thoughts separately about this movie adaptation.

Rose’s Thoughts:

I’m glad this movie adaptation starts off something like the beginning of the book! Interesting: they dramatise the gothic novels the story satirises, with Catherine as the heroine. It’s a good way to illustrate Catherine’s runaway imagination in movie form. The actor playing Henry Tilney has a cheeky grin. I like him. I don’t recall well enough if the introduction scene was the same as the book, but I enjoyed it.

I don’t think I got this impression from the book, but this movie portrays Eleanor Tilney as a bit older than Catherine. This makes some sense as Henry is a bit older as well; I just hadn’t thought about it before.

They went ahead and showed Thorpe’s duplicity in telling General Tilney that Catherine was an heiress from the start. That probably worked better in the flow of things than having the grand exposition at the end, though it does ruin some of the tension of the novel, knowing already.

The movie is a bit more risque than I would prefer, with Catherine being fully nude, though only shown from the back from the waist up, during one of her dream sequences. I don’t know if gothic novels were this blatant in Austen’s time, but I don’t like that the movie producers took it that direction for film.

I’m not sure why they decided to play up the Allens’ wealth and make it seem that Catherine or James might get an inheritance or help from them. I think the assumption that the Morlands were wealthy would have been sufficient.

This adaptation followed the book pretty faithfully, as much as a movie shorter than 2 hours can. Other than those moments noted above, I found it quite enjoyable. The casting and costumes were good, and it captured the spirit of the novel quite well.

Stacy’s Thoughts:

Well, that movie was certainly an experience! I laughed quite a bit throughout. Also, I was surprised that Hugh O’Conor, who played King Louis in the 1993 adaptation of The Three Musketeers with Kiefer Sutherland was James Morland! 

I think overall I enjoyed it, though I could have done without the dream sequences; they felt a bit too…improper, I suppose?, especially because there is the exploration of Catherine’s sexual awakening from reading ‘naughty’ books. Although it makes sense for the character to be thusly influenced by those works, I just don’t read Austen’s stories with that in mind, and Catherine seems to me to still be quite innocent, caring more for the adventure and mystery rather than the debauchery in the books she reads. However, I can understand why they chose to have them as they are an excellent way to explain Catherine’s overactive imagination and her growing up. It’s just, unfortunately, not an adaptation I could recommend the whole family watch. 

I appreciated how most of the characters were portrayed, other than Catherine, funnily enough; it felt like there was something missing when compared with her character in the book. Perhaps it was that I felt as though she was less innocent and more annoyed? I’m unsure what it was. Mr. Allen is one of my favourite characters in the book and, indeed, I enjoyed his portrayal in the film as well.

I was not a fan of the assumption that Captain Tilney slept with Isabella Thorpe. I suppose one could read the story that way but I didn’t; she just seems like a shameless flirt in the book who is after money, more similar to Mary Crawford as opposed to Lydia Bennet . 

I think most of the scenes from Northanger Abbey were really well thought out. I thought the way Henry was portrayed in the mother’s suite scene was excellent and I liked that they showed Catherine crying as she watched him leave. When Catherine is thrown out of the house at night Eleanor’s love for her is well shown.

I am uncertain about how Catherine’s mother’s character was portrayed. To me, in the book, she read much more demure and jovial and there was some of that but she also seemed in this adaptation to just not be sure what she was supposed to be. Not that I disliked it; it was just a sort of odd portrayal. 

Regarding the end of the movie in the book: we’re given no real indication that Eleanor loves someone and it’s very obvious in the movie. Also, in the book Henry and Catherine are to wait to marry until General Tilney agrees to it and in the movie it looks as though nobody really cares about him. I can understand why the adaptation did most of these things, but I’m still trying to figure out if I liked it. 

I think one of my favourite parts of the movie is Jane Austen’s voice at the beginning and end of the movie reading from the book and breaking the fourth wall. These made me laugh aloud!

I hope I don’t sound overly critical of this adaptation because, in all honesty, I didn’t mind it! There are some things I wasn’t a fan of with how they were portrayed or added to, but I think the overall feeling or vibe of the movie pretty well matched the book.

My goodness! There’s only one more complete Jane Austen novel book discussion to go; it’s hard to believe we’re already at this point. We’re planning on starting our discussion posts over Persuasion in January 2025, so if you haven’t read it yet you still have time!

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters.)

S: Chapter 26 is such a sweet chapter! I think my ponderings about General Tilney courting Catherine were incorrect because he seems very excited when she is excited about the little room Henry has not touched at Woodston, telling her that ‘…it waits only for a lady’s taste’. At the end of this chapter the reader is also made aware, albeit subtly, that Henry loves Catherine and wishes her to remain with him at Woodston.

R: This chapter was a nice little interlude, though again shows General Tilney’s apparent capriciousness when it comes to his children. While he says he won’t fix on a specific day and doesn’t care what they will be offered to eat, he proceeds to pick a specific day and time, and Henry takes all this as an expectation of a decent meal being provided. I’m glad the visit goes well, though. All seems to satisfy the general, and Catherine is delighted with the house and grounds. I’m not sure I see what you mean about the hint of Henry loving Catherine. I see more the opposite, a hint that Catherine is realising that she cares for Henry and would like to live in the house, and she catches herself being a little too invested in her praise to the point that the others notice.

S: It was also very amusing to me that Catherine is confused that General Tilney does not say what he means plainly, specifically regarding Henry leaving early so that they will have a good meal when the General, Eleanor, and Catherine visit Woodston. Family dynamics are always…amusing, for lack of a better word. 

As much as I have been annoyed with Isabella I do now feel badly for her. All her scheming has been laid bare to Catherine with her letter to the latter in Chapter 27 and she will now be hard pressed to find a husband, especially since she was not hiding her disdain for James and her quickly turned to affection for Captain Tilney. Frederick reminds me somewhat of Henry Crawford, playing with young lady’s hearts. It was a difficult lesson for Catherine to learn. I am glad she listens to Henry’s wisdom, however, so that her bitterness is stayed.

R: I’m glad that Catherine finally sees Isabella for who she is, and that she stands by her conviction of not replying to Isabella’s letter. Again I’m pleased that Henry and Eleanor prove to be such better friends to her. I agree that Captain Tilney seems to be of a similar character to Henry Crawford. Isabella is fortunate to have escaped that trap, but I can’t feel terribly sorry for her otherwise because of how she treated James. I feel sorrier for him. I’m sure he’s thankful to have learned of her inconstancy before they actually married. A broken engagement is sad and troublesome, but not impossible to recover from.

S: Very true; poor James! I have to wonder, as do Catherine and Eleanor, at the abrupt change in the General toward Catherine that would cause him to send her away so suddenly and without a chaperone. My first thought is that he has been led to believe that she has an agreement with Mr. Thorpe and has been leading Henry on with no intention of marrying him. My other thought is that perhaps Captain Tilney is expected home and he does not want Catherine to be in the middle of both his sons’ affections or possible affections. I’m fairly certain, however, that this has something to do with John Thorpe.

R: I’m glad we got a clear indication that Catherine, at least, believes that Henry is in love with her, but I was surprised by the sudden turn of events! I felt so bad for Eleanor having to convey the General’s instructions. She and Catherine had been so happy to settle that Catherine would remain for several more weeks, and they are both so sad to have those expectations dashed. I hadn’t thought about what might have motivated the General’s actions, but you could be right. Perhaps he heard something about or from John Thorpe in town that he has an understanding with Catherine and the General is trying to protect Henry. It would certainly speak better of his care for his family in a way that his behaviour to them doesn’t.

S: I’m happy Catherine made it safely home and had such a warm reception from her family; I honestly would have expected nothing less, even though we know so little about them. I am glad that the Allens are happy to have her back as well and am somewhat pleased that they, too, think the General’s conduct most unbecoming. I like that Austen makes a point of saying that her mother tried to not sound bitter or antagonistic but simply gave the facts.

R: I love Catherine’s family! They’re so good in how they help comfort Catherine and encourage her not to dwell on the circumstances, though they obviously have no idea about her feelings for Henry. I’m glad Catherine decided to write to Eleanor, but I wish she’d written a more friendly letter, rather than just a brief thank you along with returning the funds that Eleanor gave her to ensure she had enough to make it home.

S: Chapter 30 brings with it a happy discovery as, in the midst of being gently reprimanded by her mother, Catherine is visited by none other than Henry Tilney! His explanation is surprising and I am rather shocked at the real reason the General so abruptly turned her out of Northanger Abbey. It certainly did have something to do with John Thorpe but not in the way I had imagined! All of the General’s actions and words make so much more sense now, as do his children’s reactions to some of the statements Catherine makes about him, but it is still saddening to me that his end goal was money.

R: I’m thrilled that Henry comes after Catherine so quickly and clears everything up! You did guess the reason for the general’s behaviour, even if it wasn’t exactly how you thought. But it confirms our early guesses that John and Isabella were under a false impression of the Morlands’ wealth from the beginning. How they got that impression, I suppose we won’t know. I’m impressed with Henry’s fortitude in going against his father in this case, with General Tilney’s expectations and actions being so wrong. 

S: I’m so glad Henry let his feelings be known both to his father and to Catherine, yet I am a bit surprised his affection for her seemed to have begun because his father insisted on it. I suppose I can see where this would be the case, but I think he liked her at least a little bit before, even if it was just because she was so easy to tease, being unused to the city. I have to say also that I am very happy Mr. and Mrs. Morland wanted to wait until General Tilney agreed to the marriage – I think that shows a lot of wisdom.

R: The Morlands’ insistence on waiting on the general’s approval before the marriage could take place was a bit of a surprise, but showed the sense and propriety of Catherine’s parents. It probably helped General Tilney come around, as well. 

S: I am very, very happy for Eleanor, but I would have been even more happy had she ended up with James Morland! Still, in the end there were mostly happy endings, including the mystery solved of who owned the papers Catherine found in the bureau drawer in Northanger Abbey!

R: I also had the thought that Eleanor ought to marry James Morland! But I’m glad she ended up with someone who makes her happy. I’m a little annoyed that we’re given no hint that Eleanor has a beau until the last couple of pages!

S: Indeed! I can see why many people view this as their least favourite of Austen’s major works but I really like it! I’m finding it harder and harder to pick a ‘favourite’ – each story has its own merits and things I dislike and all are fun and unique. This one does feel like it ends a little abruptly but at the same time I like its difference and uniqueness of story compared with the others we’ve read so far. The fact that Austen breaks the fourth wall and speaks to the reader more so than she did in Emma was rather enjoyable. It makes me very excited to start Persuasion!

R: Northanger Abbey has made its way onto my list of favourites, just after Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility! I greatly enjoyed the humour and the 4th-wall-breaking. I loved the last line: ‘I leave it to be settled, by whomever it may concern, whether the tendency of this work be altogether to recommend parental tyranny, or reward filial disobedience.’ It bookends perfectly with the humorous opening of the book and sums it up beautifully. I believe this is the only instance, so far, where disobeying one’s parent turned out to be the right thing to do. I’m mostly thinking of Lydia Bennet and some of the Bertram children. In this case, Henry Tilney was right to go against his father’s wishes, but he did so in a respectful and appropriate manner because his father believed falsehoods about Catherine. This was definitely an enjoyable read. I’m also looking forward to starting Persuasion.

We will have our discussion over the 2007 movie adaptation with Felicity Jones and JJ Field up in September!

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters.)

S: Chapters 21 through 23 are absolutely hilarious! I so enjoyed Austen’s descriptions of Catherine’s imagination going wild and her embarrassment when her fancies ended up being just that. I couldn’t help smiling!

R: When I first started reading Chapter 21, I was impressed that Catherine seemed to have curbed her imagination, but then she sees a ‘mysterious’ chest and wardrobe and her imagination goes wild. General Tilney’s behaviour is still confounding me, one minute severe to his children, the next all generosity and politeness to Catherine. He’d been very stern about them being on time for a meal, then chastises his daughter for rushing Catherine to get ready. Most confusing. 

S: I agree – he is very confusing! 

I very much enjoyed the line, ‘Catherine was probably the only one of the party who did not understand him’ after General Tilney says he expects to purchase a new tea set for someone soon. I laughed aloud for probably a full thirty seconds and, while writing this, am still smiling at it. Her innocence is so fun! Sometimes characters who are extremely innocent annoy me but she does not; she also speaks up for herself and is not flighty. I find her very fun to read.

R: Catherine recovers her sense at the beginning of Chapter 22, but starts to lose it again by the end, imagining all sorts of awful things about General Tilney. She may not be entirely wrong based on what we have seen of apparent two-faced behaviour, but she goes off into flights of fancy far too readily. I actually didn’t catch the reference at first with the tea set, but it sounds like he expects her to marry Henry. He certainly seems to assume that there’s an understanding between them.

S: That was my first thought, but then I was struck with this: does the General want to marry Catherine? Is that why he wanted her to come and stay with them and why his children, particularly Miss Tilney, are embarrassed so often? I suppose it wouldn’t be that uncommon of a thing, especially since this is meant to poke fun at Gothic novels. Although, the General did mention that Henry may find Woodston to be rather dull and seems to be insisting to Catherine that it is a nice home and that it is good for Henry to work, although he doesn’t need to. I am intrigued. 

We finally learn a bit about Mrs. Tilney. I have to say that while I do enjoy reading about Catherine it is sometimes painfully obvious that she has really never suffered a great grief and is still very young. She is convinced that General Tilney did not love his wife, was in fact cruel to her, and may even be keeping her alive unbeknownst to his children, because he does not walk on her favourite walk, nor hang her picture in his room, nor let Eleanor show Catherine Mrs. Tilney’s rooms. In reality, he probably does this out of grief because he truly loved her, but Austen paints such a ridiculous, yet somewhat believable, picture for the reader from Catherine’s imagination that it does make one wonder how this will be resolved. Also, Eleanor’s insistence that a mother would always be around makes me wonder more if Catherine is being considered as a wife for the General. (I enjoy this book so much!)

R: The idea that General Tilney might be considering Catherine as a wife for himself hadn’t occurred to me, and I don’t see it myself. I did chuckle at many of Catherine’s conjectures about Mrs. Tilney and the General’s behaviour. At the same time, while I don’t think he’s anywhere near as bad as Catherine thinks he might be, I believe he might be at least overly authoritarian with his children. I expect to find at the end that Catherine’s imaginings were 100% wrong, however.

S: I would agree with you that Catherine’s imaginings will be completely inaccurate. 

Although Chapter 23 was a bit dull reading for me just because of all the description, I did enjoy that we were given a tour of the grounds and abbey. It is also quite amusing to me that the General hopes Catherine’s family will visit Northanger Abbey in the future and yet Catherine really doesn’t seem to understand the inference.

I appreciated Henry’s gentle rebuke at the end of Chapter 24. He does not seem angry, merely saddened that she should have thought so ill of his father’s and mother’s relationship. I also was very shocked and unnerved at her exploration of Mrs. Tilney’s rooms alone – it was very childish.

R: Catherine definitely takes things too far in going to explore Mrs. Tilney’s rooms by herself, on top of again allowing her imagination to run away with her. I also appreciated how gentle Henry was in his rebuke of her thoughts and behaviour. I hope that Catherine truly takes it to heart. I also learned a new word in Chapter 24: suppositious, meaning substituted for the real thing, or not genuine. I basically understood the meaning from the context, but I wanted to make sure.

S: I love those delicious words! That is definitely one benefit of reading older books – your vocabulary grows exponentially.

As sad as I am to say it, I knew Isabella was deceiving Catherine and only wanted to marry for money. I am happy, though, that Catherine felt able to share the letter from James with Eleanor and Henry as they, mainly Henry, helped her work through what she was feeling. I honestly thought this would have been left until the last couple of chapters, but we still have six chapters to go! At least Catherine has had some experiences that, though uncomfortable, have happened in safe environments and are helping her grow up and have a better understanding of human nature. I do feel sorry for James.

R: The beginning of Chapter 25 made me like Henry even more. He was so generous and kind to Catherine after reprimanding her. I, too, am saddened that we were right in our doubts of Isabella’s constancy. I wonder whether she will try to continue a friendship with Catherine despite the circumstances. I only hope that Catherine has definitely learned her lesson and won’t be drawn in.

S: One of my favourite scenes is when Henry and Eleanor are commenting that Catherine will make for a delightful sister-in-law for Eleanor and Catherine has no idea they are talking of her! I also liked Henry’s observation of Catherine: ‘You feel, as you always do, what is most to the credit of human nature. Such feelings ought to be investigated, that they may know themselves’.

R: I appreciated how compassionate Henry and Eleanor are in first allowing Catherine time to deal with her emotions on her own, but then making themselves available in support once she was ready to share. They show themselves to be true friends in contrast with Isabella.

S: It’s hard to believe we’ll be finished discussing this work in the next post. I have enjoyed it and am excited to see how it will end.

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters.)

S: I can understand Catherine’s disappointment after spending time with the Tilneys. It’s a shame when you’re looking forward to spending time with people and they seem to be preoccupied while they’re with you. I have to say, Isabella isn’t helping matters – actually, maybe she is, unwittingly, because Catherine begins to defend the Tilneys to her, which causes her (Catherine) to really think about the time they spent together and see that it wasn’t all disappointing. She really is good at giving people the benefit of the doubt, unlike Isabella. We soon learn about the elder Tilney brother, Frederick, so my guess is that the family was concerned for his arrival and thus preoccupied with their thoughts. 

R: It was an interesting start to this next chapter. I agree that it might be the anticipation of the elder Tilney brother’s arrival preoccupying the family when Catherine visits. That is the only thing that makes sense so far, based on what we’re given and how Henry and his sister behave normally at the ball. I didn’t like how Isabella seemed to be pushing Catherine towards her (Isabella’s) brother over Mr. Tilney by being so negative about the Tilneys.

S: Also, I have a feeling that Isabella is not entirely convinced that James Morland is her best marriage option and is, in fact, disappointed with the amount of money he will inherit at the end of three years.

R: Either this, or Isabella is still convinced that the Morland family is extremely wealthy, but Mr. Morland is being stingy with James’ inheritance. 

S: Ah, true!

The scene at the ball is a bit cringy and I feel badly for Catherine because she really doesn’t understand the courting game (not that I think she necessarily should – there’s something to be said for just being honest). I was disappointed that Henry didn’t really explain things to her about his brother liking Isabella. I’m not sure if Henry doesn’t think he needs to explain or if he’s trying to and just doesn’t know how to say it in a way Catherine will understand. I see further evidence of not liking Isabella’s character very much because it seems to me that she is protesting way too much about not enjoying her dance with Frederick which makes me think she is enamoured with him.

R: I found some of the dialogue and narrative a bit confusing at this point. I’m also not sure whether Isabella at this point is seeing Captain Tilney as a potential rival for James Morland or if she truly just danced with him because of his persistence. I did realise that Captain Tilney must really like Isabella since he wants to dance with her even though he dislikes the activity. He reminds me a little of Mr. Darcy there. It was cute that Catherine wasn’t catching Henry’s hints that his brother likes Isabella, but it does further show her naivete. 

S: Oh, I hadn’t thought of comparing his opinion of dancing with Mr. Darcy’s!

After such a cringe worthy chapter as Chapter 16 I was relieved to read that Catherine has been invited to stay with the Tilneys at their home in Northanger Abbey. I really hope this means further happiness for her.

R: It’s funny that the book is called Northanger Abbey, but the characters won’t arrive there – and I don’t think it was mentioned – until more than halfway into the book. I am glad that Miss Tilney wants to continue her acquaintance with Catherine enough to invite her to their home.

S: That’s true! We are kept in suspense (I wonder if that was on purpose considering the satire of the book) as to where and what Northanger Abbey is. 

Again, I’m having a lot of trouble not being annoyed with Isabella because she assumes Catherine thinks the same way as she does about courting and thinks Catherine is playing some type of game with John. Although Isabella says she believes that Catherine didn’t intend to lead John on I’m not sure she actually does based on the way Austen describes her facial expressions. I think she’s also saying everything about fast choices because she is now deeply in like with Captain Tilney rather than James. 

I continue to appreciate Catherine’s honesty when she clears up, or tries to clear up, the miscommunication between herself, John, and Isabella. For her sake I hope it really is cleared up, but I have a feeling it isn’t. 

R: Isabella is changeable and inconstant. She is excited about John and Catherine’s supposed understanding, but as soon as Catherine corrects her, Isabella starts to say that she never thought they would be a good match. Then when Captain Tilney shows up, it’s obvious that Isabella seems to have feelings for him. I feel so sorry for Catherine. She recognizes what’s going on, though thinks Isabella is innocently flirting (I doubt this). I hope that Miss Tilney will prove to be a truer friend to Catherine than Isabella seems to be.

S: Agreed! So far I think I like Miss Tilney and I hope that I’m not mistaken in liking her.

I’m not sure how I feel about the way Chapter 19 progressed. I understand Henry’s point of view regarding Frederick’s pursuit of Isabella and it frustrates me that Catherine presses the subject. I know she feels badly for James but at the same time it’s really none of her affair. I think Henry was kind in how he helped Catherine work through her feelings about the whole thing, even if I think there is more to it than he thinks there is. I enjoyed his wording: ‘To be guided by secondhand conjecture is pitiful’. We cannot allow ourselves to be guided through life by assumption.

R: I’m not certain how I feel about Henry’s perspective in this situation, but Catherine does her best as Isabella’s friend to caution her about her behaviour. I don’t know whether Isabella is deliberately or unintentionally obtuse, but we see at the end of the chapter that she does show some signs of waning interest in James. I feel bad for him. 

S: As I have been reading this section, it has occurred to me that as much as I am annoyed with Isabella assuming others think as she does, Catherine does the same thing. I think the reason it annoys me more from Isabella is because her thinking is devious and revolves around assuming the worst in people, whereas Catherine’s assumptions are fairly naive and innocent.

Chapter 20 is interesting, to say the least. I don’t quite know how to feel about General Tilney or his relationship with his children. He seems to be frustrated and disappointed with Captain Tilney and seems a sort of shadow over Henry and Miss Tilney. We now know for certain that Frederick likes Isabella, so we’ll see what that leads to.

R: General Tilney’s behaviour confuses me as well. He’s so overly solicitous of Catherine to the point of making her uncomfortable, but seems to loom over his children in an authoritarian or dictatorial way. 

S: I do wonder at what General Tilney is thinking by putting Catherine with Mr. Tilney in the curricle, but perhaps he is already under the assumption that they are together and since they are traveling as a family there is really nothing untoward about it as there would have been when the Thorpes and James were trying to get Catherine to go along with them.

R: That was another circumstance that gave me pause. I hadn’t considered the thought that the General might think that Henry and Catherine have an understanding, but I also can’t think of any other reason. I would have thought he’d like her to stay with his daughter.

I really enjoyed the conversation between Catherine and Henry! It showcased Mr. Tilney’s teasing nature as well as Catherine’s naivete. I was a bit surprised that Northanger Abbey was nothing like what Catherine had been expecting. It was amusing that even General Tilney seemed to pick up on her disappointment. 

S: Catherine’s disappointment is palpable when they arrive at Northanger Abbey and, in a way, I do feel sad for her that it doesn’t meet expectations. Building something up in one’s mind only to find it less than what you thought, and yet also more than what you thought, is disappointing. I hadn’t caught the part about General Tilney picking up on Catherine’s disappointment, but that makes sense since he kept talking about all the improvements he’d made.

The exchange between Catherine and Mr. Tilney was, at first, a bit off putting to me until I realised that he is teasing her. Perhaps it’s moments like these that make people not enjoy this book as much as Austen’s others? Regardless, it’s a funny exchange and I am reminded once more of how young and imaginative Catherine is and it makes me laugh. Honestly, she makes me wonder if Jane Austen took some of her own personality and infused it into Catherine. Chapter 20 certainly leaves us on a cliffhanger, for we are uncertain exactly how time will be spent at Northanger Abbey. There also seems to be a foreshadowing of a better understanding of how the Tilney family functions, which I am looking forward to, because right now they confuse me.

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters.)

S: Oo, Chapter 11 makes my blood boil. I actively dislike Mr. Thorpe now. How dare he not listen to Catherine when she wanted to be let out of the gig! And then to be angry that they had set out too late and blame her brother – I try to not become angry at literary characters but his attitude takes all, especially his lie and the fact he didn’t own up to it (I suppose it’s possible he thought he saw Mr. Tilney but his attitude suggests otherwise). He also scoffed at James for not ‘…keeping a horse and gig of his own’ and scoffed when Catherine mentions James can’t afford them. Does he think the Morlands come from money? It seems, though we know so little of James, that he wouldn’t allow people to think that, but maybe he has, or perhaps it’s all assumption by the Thorpe siblings. That will make for an interesting turn of events if Isabella ends her fancy for James when she discovers the Morlands really don’t have money! 

Speaking of Isabella – ugh. It’s as if neither Thorpe brother nor sister want to ever take responsibility for their own reckless behaviour. I don’t know how Catherine is going to get out of this mess – I feel for her. I also wonder if a lot of the mix ups and misunderstandings and social faux pas on her part is because she has never been taught how to act ‘in town’, if that makes sense.

R: I don’t know why I didn’t expect disaster in this chapter, but I did not. Between the rain and Catherine being bullied into going for a drive with Isabella and their brothers, this was an upsetting chapter. I agree with you completely about Mr. Thorpe. He is aggravating. I feel bad for Catherine, but also think she should have used a little sense by leaving a message for the Tilneys in case they showed up. 

S: Ah yes. I agree with you about leaving a message. That would have perhaps lessened hurt feelings. I am so happy that Catherine was able to clear up the misunderstanding with Mr. Tilney, although I am sorry that she was hurt and humiliated when she was not allowed admittance to see Miss Tilney in order to apologise. My next question is, does General Tilney really admire her as Mr. Thorpe is leading her to believe? I don’t think so. I think Mr. Thorpe is up to his old antics again and I’m sure Catherine’s joy will be dashed soon.

R: I’m also pleased that Catherine was able to clear the air with Mr. Tilney, and I trust that he’ll convey her apologies to his sister and they’ll soon reconcile. I agree that Mr. Thorpe is not being honest in what he said about the General. Before, he seemed to be merely self-centred, but now I’m getting the feeling that he’s deliberately duplicitous. I think he realises that Catherine is interested in Mr. Tilney and is doing what he can to keep them apart.

S: Is this section of the book meant to incite such strong feelings? It must, for I am thoroughly annoyed by not only Mr. and Miss Thorpe, but also by James and Mrs. Allen! How dare they try to manipulate Catherine or, in Mrs. Allen’s case, appear hypocritical! It probably makes me so angry because I have often been in Catherine’s shoes and absolutely hate it, feeling as though I have no voice and I’m in the wrong for a decision I know to be right. People do tend to become angry and manipulative when they know they are in the wrong, so perhaps that is what was going on with Catherine’s supposed friends. 

R: Chapter 13 is infuriating! Mr. Thorpe and James and Isabella are outright gaslighting poor Catherine! And when Mr. Thorpe goes to the Tilneys and changes Catherine’s plans against her will and without her knowledge, I wanted to slap him.

S: Yes! Knock some sense into him, although he’s so narcissistic I don’t know if he’d laugh it off or try to emotionally manipulate and convince that he is in the right. 

I am happy, however, that Catherine chose to leave that group and go apologise to Miss Tilney and explain what happened. I hope the Tilney’s realise she is being bullied and give her grace. I also like that Mr. Allen is proper and she feels safe with him so as to ask him questions about propriety. It’s nice she has one clear advocate in Bath. I thought Mrs. Allen was one, but at the same time she just seems extremely fickle or perhaps simply unaware and self-centred.

R: Agreed, on all counts! I was impressed with Catherine’s fortitude in sticking to her convictions and sense of right in the face of strong peer pressure. I was surprised that Mr. Thorpe was apparently telling her the truth about General Tilney’s impression of her. I’m glad Catherine is able to sort things out with the Tilneys. Mrs. Allen’s wishy-washiness is irritating, but it’s good that her husband has a better grasp of propriety and confirms Catherine’s instincts. I appreciate her inclination to want to warn Isabella off, and I’m a little worried that her not doing so is going to come back around later and cause a problem.

S: The fact that Austen calls Catherine the ‘heroine’ and Mr. Tilney the ‘hero’ at the beginning of Chapter 14 makes me smile. Also, Mr. Tilney’s comment, ‘The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid’ is perhaps one of the most hilarious and beautiful sentences I have read in Austen’s novels, especially since she had no idea how infamous her own novels would one day become!

R: I love that line as well! I do wonder which ‘sister author’ Austen was referencing, if any in particular. I’m glad that Catherine finally got to have her walk with the Tilneys.

S: I wonder if Chapter 14 is the chapter that makes people stop enjoying this book. I admit to being a bit offended at Henry’s discourse on women but at Miss Eleanor’s assurances that he was simply playing and joking around I found the chapter, on the whole, pleasant. I am very happy that Catherine was able to have that time with the Tilneys and I hope it sets the precedent for a good turn of events for her.

R: I agree that Henry’s comments are on the cringy side. Overall, the chapter was enjoyable, but that did put a slight damper on it. I hope that Miss Tilney is right that her brother is only teasing.

S: That’s true! He could have an unkind side to him; I hope not, though, because so far I’ve been enjoying that he is the ‘hero’.  

Chapter 15 is a literary delight and so true to real life! I did wonder if James would propose to Isabella on this outing and if that is why he was so angry with Catherine for not wanting to go with them. Catherine’s unassuming ways are still lost on Isabella who assumes her friend thinks exactly as she does and has guessed her exciting news. I am wondering, however, if Isabella really understands that the Morlands are not a rich family based on some of Isabella’s ponderings: ‘As for myself, I am sure I only wish our situations were reversed. Had I the command of millions, were I mistress of the whole world, your brother would be my only choice.’ It sounds to me as if Isabella thinks James will inherit millions.

R: I was not particularly surprised about James and Isabella becoming engaged. I’m pleased with the development, but I concur with what you say about Isabella’s thinking. Mr. Thorpe seemed under the same impression in a previous chapter when he was wondering how it could be that James couldn’t afford to keep a good horse. I wonder how they could have come to this conclusion.

Also, it was amusing to me that Austen referenced the ‘eight parts of speech’, something that apparently hasn’t changed in over 200 years!

S: I love it!

Then we come to the part where John Thorpe has, essentially, declared there to be an understanding between them. Oh, Catherine! Oh, gentle, naive Catherine! The reader understands what John Thorpe is implying but our heroine, it seems, does not. Or perhaps she does and is trying to be only friendly and not flirty. Either way, I foresee some very big miscommunication in the future! (My goodness, as I read over this discussion I’ve noticed I’ve used too many exclamation marks; yet, what else is one to do when there are so many frustrating instances?!)

R: My worry is that John Thorpe now considers them engaged based on her vague answers! I can’t decide whether he really cares for Catherine or is just putting on a show in this scene.  

S: I agree! I think that’s the most probable assumption. I laughed at the Mr. and Mrs. Allen’s responses regarding James and Isabella’s engagement – they are so pragmatic. I can just hear them saying, ‘Oh of course we figured something like this would happen; yes it makes sense.’