(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

R: This set of chapters starts with the introduction of two new characters – the Miss Steeles. The elder Miss Steele and the younger sister Lucy Steele are relatives of Mrs. Jennings and come to visit at Barton. We also learn the names of the Middleton children – John, William and Annamaria – whom the Miss Steeles dote upon and spoil from the very beginning, ingratiating themselves to Lady Middleton, who hadn’t been particularly pleased at their being invited.

They try to do the same with the Miss Dashwoods, but Elinor at least sees them as rather vulgar. The elder Miss Steele is obsessed with beaux, and both are more than happy to listen to and comment on the juicy gossip about Marianne and Elinor’s supposed beaux. We are given the intelligence that Miss Steele is very well-acquainted with Edward Ferrars, but I think the reader is likely to be doubtful of how well she actually knows him. After the exaggeration by Mrs. Palmer in the previous chapters, I’m suspicious of anyone who says they know anything!

S: I’m certainly surprised at how spoiled the Middleton children are! I was under the impression from the previous chapters that Lady Middleton deeply cared for her children and thus was training them to be well-behaved members of society, unlike her mother, sister, and husband. It appears by coddling and spoiling them she’s training them to be just like the very people she appears to despise. 

The Steele sisters do appear just as silly and gossipy as Mrs. Jennings and Sir John, but at first glance I don’t mind them. Rather, I feel a tad sorry for them since neither are married and Anne is already thirty! I do find it rather amusing that, as much as Sir John is trying to ingratiate the Steele sisters to the Dashwood sisters, he seems to do just the opposite, though neither party will say so. Imagine being told how wonderful someone is over and over before you’ve even met them – it becomes rather a little annoying. 

R: Marianne doesn’t have any patience with the Miss Steeles either, but doesn’t handle those feelings nearly as well as Elinor. But poor Elinor! The hits just keep coming. Lucy has major revelations about Edward, which she conveys to Miss Dashwood as if she’s taking her into confidence. But the reader can see that she really does it to be cruel. Lucy’s been informed by others of Edward’s regard for Elinor, and she feels the need to mark her territory.

**I do have to make a correction from our last post. I thought Edward was the younger son, but he is actually the eldest.**

Elinor keeps her composure through Lucy’s revelation, ever hoping that Lucy’s Edward is not the same as hers, but Lucy offers several pieces of proof, which taken together are incontrovertible. One of those pieces of evidence is the ring with a lock of hair that Edward wore when he visited the Dashwoods. We learn that the hair belongs to Lucy, and was given to him, instead of being taken from Elinor by stealth as was supposed in the last chapter. 

It really makes me think less of Edward’s character. While he never lied to Elinor, by his silence, he allowed feelings to grow in both of them that he wasn’t at liberty to pursue. 

S: Something struck me in this chapter. Although Lucy is attempting to warn off Elinor, I honestly can’t blame her. She’s been secretly engaged to someone who will be a great catch for her family (if she is able to appeal one day to Mrs. Ferrars), so really she is the only hope for her family as far as monetary security since her sister is, by this time, considered an old maid. She has believed all this time that Edward has remained, and will remain, faithful, and then all of a sudden he begins talking of a new woman so much that she becomes scared. Then when she arrives praises pour from her hosts’ mouths of said woman. Granted, it may have all been a scheme from the start to meet Elinor and let her know (they happened to be in Exter and I’m sure they knew of Sir John’s and Mrs. Jennings’ reputation since they were family). I don’t particularly like the way in which Lucy did it, and I know Elinor, it appears, is our true heroine, but at the close of Chapter 22, I understand Lucy’s reasons. I have to say, however, that I appreciate Elinor’s statement: ‘I certainly did not seek your confidence….’ It’s the closest I’ve seen Elinor losing control of her tongue because of her feelings!

I agree with you that it makes me think less of Edward. I had, up until this point, considered him to be a man of virtue and trustworthiness. 

R: There’s not a lot to the next chapter. It seems more transitional than anything else. We get some of Elinor’s thoughts about Edward: concern for him more than herself, and her determination to keep Lucy’s revelation to herself, not only because it was given in confidence, but Elinor’s knowledge that her mother and sister would only make things worse by their sympathy.

S: I laughed aloud at that part! Just the fact that Elinor spends time thinking it through and examining it from all the angles, as well as considering whether or not to engage in her own form of gossip makes Elinor seem more human. ‘….she wept for him more than for herself.’ This speaks volumes of her character that, even though she could reasonably be angry with the man who had deceived her, she nonetheless still cares for him. Elinor works through her emotions and looks at the situation not only from her point of view but also from Edward’s. 

R: It’s interesting to me that Elinor would want to know more about the situation from Lucy Steele, though we don’t get that conversation in this chapter. There is another glimpse of Lucy’s doting on the children and Lady Middleton taking advantage.

S: This surprised me as well. I wonder if it has something to do with her wanting to make absolutely certain of everything, since she probably will never be free to marry or really love Edward now; at least she can talk about him. Perhaps it’s her way of grieving and feeling pitiful much as Marianne’s is to go weeping and wailing and speaking rudely. 

I have to say, Lady Middleton is not someone I would want to be around or be dependent upon! I feel quite annoyed with her with her manipulation of Lucy. Although we learn earlier that Lucy is illiterate and had no formal education, she’s quick as a whip, so I’m sure she knows exactly what’s going on, but goodness – I probably would have just ignored Lady Middleton. (Then again, I suppose she realises she doesn’t have much choice but to do as she’s ‘bidden’.) 

Then, oh the conversation that takes place! After this chapter it’s easier to dislike Lucy and my esteem for Elinor rises. She knows how to play Lucy’s game and she’s going to let her know it. In fact, she essentially says, ‘Thou dost protest too much’ when Lucy continues to exclaim how much Edward loves her and how true he is to her. Her assertion toward Lucy that it’s not just about love but also about the money in Mrs. Ferrars’ possession that will hopefully go to Edward drives the point home that Elinor knows what Lucy’s doing, and Lucy knows it, too. For the rest of the chapter Lucy seems to try and one up Elinor, but Elinor’s calm reserve cannot be shaken. I think probably Elinor considers it a great triumph that Edward truly does love her, even if he goes on to marry Lucy, and that is what makes her more bold in her assertions. 

I very much am looking forward to the next five chapters! Chapter 25 left us with so many questions: Will Marianne meet up with Willoughby in London? Will Mrs. Jennings completely embarrass the Dashwoods? Will Elinor and/or Lucy somehow meet up with Edward? Will there be more confrontations? And the all-important question: Where is Colonel Brandon? (As an aside, it gives me a great deal of satisfaction that the Dashwoods are invited to go to London with Mrs. Jennings whilst the Steeles must wait until the Middletons choose to go!)

R: Chapter 25 is a pretty significant shift. Earlier in the book, Elinor was insisting that they (the Dashwoods) would never go into London for the season, but now she’s all but forced to go just to look out for Marianne, who would undoubtedly manage to get herself into some kind of major trouble if left to her own devices. 

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

S: The first part of this section made me laugh out loud – Marianne’s melancholic state is absolutely hilarious, and Mrs. Dashwood’s sympathy for her kind of makes me roll my eyes.

R: Austen describes this period as a ‘violence of affliction,’ which fits Marianne perfectly. She never does anything by half-measures. Everything that happens to her is the very worst or the very best. And the indulgence of Marianne’s emotions by their mother doesn’t help.

I do like how Austen introduces Edward Ferrars through Marianne’s lens. Any man who rode up during that time was likely to be mistaken for Willoughby. I love how Austen describes Marianne’s emotions when she realizes who it actually is: ‘He was the only person in the world who could at that moment be forgiven for not being Willoughby; the only one who could have gained a smile from her…’ Despite Marianne’s despair, Edward brings back a little of her joy. 

S: As I was reading the parts about Edward’s visit, I felt a little off put by his demeanour. In my mind from when we first met him he was shy, but after reading this section he seems to me more depressed than shy, so I’m not sure how to feel now. I almost think we’re supposed to feel just as confused as Elinor obviously feels. I do like, though, how he and Elinor tease Marianne; it’s rather cute.

R: Edward acts so oddly throughout this part. And there’s absolutely no hint as to why. With Colonel Brandon’s situation, there is the ‘insider’s perspective’ from Mrs. Jennings, but the only people at Barton who know Edward at all, are as confounded as the reader.

The teasing is a fun bit; it gives us a different view of Edward. We also see that Edward not only seems to have stolen a bit of Elinor’s hair as a memento, but seems unwilling to discuss it even with her. And we learn about his preference for becoming a clergyman, which would be considered a rather significant step down for a nobleman, even a younger son, as Edward is.

I like how Edward explains it: ‘I always preferred the church, as I still do. But that was not smart enough for my family. They recommended the army. That was a great deal too smart for me. The law was allowed to be genteel enough […] But I had no inclination for the law […] As for the navy, it had fashion on its side, but I was too old when the subject was first started to enter it—and, at length, as there was no necessity for my having any profession at all, as I might be as dashing and expensive without a red coat on my back as with one, idleness was pronounced on the whole to be most advantageous and honourable, and a young man of eighteen is not in general so earnestly bent on being busy as to resist the solicitations of his friends to do nothing. I was therefore entered at Oxford and have been properly idle ever since.’

So, was Oxford the party school of the Georgian era?

S: Oh, that’s funny!

I feel as if I want to like Mrs. Palmer, even though she’s extremely flighty and somewhat pushy like her mother, Mrs. Jennings. 

R: I’m afraid my view of Mrs. Palmer is too colored by the movie version to be able to even think of liking her; she’s played by the actress who plays Professor Umbridge in the Harry Potter movies. But she is kind of sweet and quite ridiculous, never taking anything her husband says seriously.

S: One of my favourite lines from Chapter 20 regards Mrs. Palmer: ‘The studied indifference, insolence, and discontent of her husband gave her no pain; and when he scolded or abused her, she was highly diverted.’ My next favourite line regards Mr. Palmer: ‘…but the means, however they might succeed by establishing his superiority in ill-breeding, were not likely to attach any one to him, except his wife.’ Some people are just made for each other even though they seem like they shouldn’t be. I continue to be highly amused at the silly people the Dashwoods keep meeting.

R: Mr. Palmer is another favorite character. I’m curious if he was always so sarcastic or if his wife’s flightiness drove him to it. And Mrs. Palmer shows herself to be very much like her mother in reporting that she was told by Colonel Brandon about Marianne being engaged to Willoughby. We know from his earlier reticence with the whole party that this isn’t likely to be true, so we’re shown in this way that Mrs. Palmer is as big of a gossip as Mrs. Jennings, and just as factual, which is to say, not at all.

S: The question remains: What is happening with Edward, Willoughby, and Colonel Brandon? It seems we are no closer to a satisfying explanation by the end of this section.

R: All the mysteries! It leaves you wondering if any of these three will return; and if they do, under what circumstances? 

S: Here’s hoping we’ll find out a few answers in Chapters 21-25!