(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

S: The first part of this section made me laugh out loud – Marianne’s melancholic state is absolutely hilarious, and Mrs. Dashwood’s sympathy for her kind of makes me roll my eyes.

R: Austen describes this period as a ‘violence of affliction,’ which fits Marianne perfectly. She never does anything by half-measures. Everything that happens to her is the very worst or the very best. And the indulgence of Marianne’s emotions by their mother doesn’t help.

I do like how Austen introduces Edward Ferrars through Marianne’s lens. Any man who rode up during that time was likely to be mistaken for Willoughby. I love how Austen describes Marianne’s emotions when she realizes who it actually is: ‘He was the only person in the world who could at that moment be forgiven for not being Willoughby; the only one who could have gained a smile from her…’ Despite Marianne’s despair, Edward brings back a little of her joy. 

S: As I was reading the parts about Edward’s visit, I felt a little off put by his demeanour. In my mind from when we first met him he was shy, but after reading this section he seems to me more depressed than shy, so I’m not sure how to feel now. I almost think we’re supposed to feel just as confused as Elinor obviously feels. I do like, though, how he and Elinor tease Marianne; it’s rather cute.

R: Edward acts so oddly throughout this part. And there’s absolutely no hint as to why. With Colonel Brandon’s situation, there is the ‘insider’s perspective’ from Mrs. Jennings, but the only people at Barton who know Edward at all, are as confounded as the reader.

The teasing is a fun bit; it gives us a different view of Edward. We also see that Edward not only seems to have stolen a bit of Elinor’s hair as a memento, but seems unwilling to discuss it even with her. And we learn about his preference for becoming a clergyman, which would be considered a rather significant step down for a nobleman, even a younger son, as Edward is.

I like how Edward explains it: ‘I always preferred the church, as I still do. But that was not smart enough for my family. They recommended the army. That was a great deal too smart for me. The law was allowed to be genteel enough […] But I had no inclination for the law […] As for the navy, it had fashion on its side, but I was too old when the subject was first started to enter it—and, at length, as there was no necessity for my having any profession at all, as I might be as dashing and expensive without a red coat on my back as with one, idleness was pronounced on the whole to be most advantageous and honourable, and a young man of eighteen is not in general so earnestly bent on being busy as to resist the solicitations of his friends to do nothing. I was therefore entered at Oxford and have been properly idle ever since.’

So, was Oxford the party school of the Georgian era?

S: Oh, that’s funny!

I feel as if I want to like Mrs. Palmer, even though she’s extremely flighty and somewhat pushy like her mother, Mrs. Jennings. 

R: I’m afraid my view of Mrs. Palmer is too colored by the movie version to be able to even think of liking her; she’s played by the actress who plays Professor Umbridge in the Harry Potter movies. But she is kind of sweet and quite ridiculous, never taking anything her husband says seriously.

S: One of my favourite lines from Chapter 20 regards Mrs. Palmer: ‘The studied indifference, insolence, and discontent of her husband gave her no pain; and when he scolded or abused her, she was highly diverted.’ My next favourite line regards Mr. Palmer: ‘…but the means, however they might succeed by establishing his superiority in ill-breeding, were not likely to attach any one to him, except his wife.’ Some people are just made for each other even though they seem like they shouldn’t be. I continue to be highly amused at the silly people the Dashwoods keep meeting.

R: Mr. Palmer is another favorite character. I’m curious if he was always so sarcastic or if his wife’s flightiness drove him to it. And Mrs. Palmer shows herself to be very much like her mother in reporting that she was told by Colonel Brandon about Marianne being engaged to Willoughby. We know from his earlier reticence with the whole party that this isn’t likely to be true, so we’re shown in this way that Mrs. Palmer is as big of a gossip as Mrs. Jennings, and just as factual, which is to say, not at all.

S: The question remains: What is happening with Edward, Willoughby, and Colonel Brandon? It seems we are no closer to a satisfying explanation by the end of this section.

R: All the mysteries! It leaves you wondering if any of these three will return; and if they do, under what circumstances? 

S: Here’s hoping we’ll find out a few answers in Chapters 21-25!

(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters and possibly for future chapters.)

S: There is so much in these five chapters which endear me to certain characters and have me rolling my eyes at others. I find Marianne’s and Willoughby’s displays of affection rather annoying, sort of like those couples you see who are so in love they just make you want to gag. They seem to have no sense of how their behaviour appears to others, particularly when Willoughby takes Marianne to Allenham alone. They themselves gossip about others, so it comes as no surprise that their own behaviour is making its way down the grapevine. Further, their general heat of the moment decisions regarding practical things is also lacking (I’m thinking of the horse Willoughby wants to give Marianne). Then, Willoughby abruptly leaves without a reasonably good explanation as to why. Part of me is infuriated with him, and the other part of me is wondering what in the world is happening.

…when the romantic refinements of a young mind are obliged to give way, how frequently are they succeeded by such opinions as are but too common, and too dangerous!

~Colonel Brandon

R: Marianne is so reckless with her behavior with and about Willoughby. In a time when one’s reputation could be ruined by such indiscretions, she takes no care to protect herself. Elinor tries to talk sense into her sister, but Marianne only came around in part, turning down the horse, not because it was inappropriate, but because it would be a burden on her mother. That seems to be the only consequence that penetrates her haze of emotionalism. I definitely think it’s good that Willoughby left, even under mysterious circumstances.

S: Mrs. Dashwood’s lack of motherly rebuke of Marianne is disappointing, though, as we discussed earlier, she and Marianne are cut from the same cloth, so I suppose she just thinks it’s the way to go about things. Still, she really seems to favour Marianne against Elinor, perhaps because Elinor doesn’t allow her emotions to cloud her.

R: I wonder if Mrs. Dashwood was always like this, or if her grief over the loss of her husband and home have made her more lax than she would have been otherwise. She might also be feeling guilty over removing her daughters from the home they’d always known. I’m not sure we’re given enough information about her before she became a widow to know for sure.

S: You know, that’s true – I was also wondering if Mrs. Dashwood had changed after her husband’s death, or if she had always been like that. The idea of her feeling guilty is a good point – I hadn’t thought of that, and it makes me a little less irritated with her if that is the case. 

S: Elinor, reminds me more and more of myself. Although I can be quite emotional, I can also be rather too practical. Her conversation with her mother regarding Willoughby’s abrupt exit was interesting. The way Mrs. Dashwood speaks to her and rebukes her musings is similar to what has happened to me a few times with different people, usually close friends. It’s hurtful when you’re trying to talk out something in a logical manner and the other person is so emotional that everything you say makes them feel attacked. In the end, both people end up hurt.

R: I’m the same way – far too practical in some things and far too emotional in others. I think that disconnect can sometimes happen both ways, too. If you’re emotional and want to just talk something out, but the other person is trying to offer logical solutions to whatever the problem is, it can be just as difficult. I’ve been on both sides of that one. The fact that Mrs. Dashwood continually pushes aside Elinor’s concerns about Willoughby and Marianne’s behavior doesn’t bode well. She has to know that Elinor has a good head on her shoulders and wouldn’t be saying anything unless she was sure of herself.

S: True – it sends up a red flag. Then there is the mystery surrounding Colonel Brandon, who appears to have a romantic side, but from his short conversation with Elinor seems to have traded it for wistful rememberings. We find he has a daughter (we can always count on Mrs. Jennings to know what she’s talking about in such matters). We also are reminded that the Colonel wants others to be happy and so notices when someone needs a bit of encouragement or a pick-me-up, such as talking with Elinor at the party. 

R: Ooh, this one is so hard not to give spoilers on. Colonel Brandon is probably my favorite character in the whole book, and it’s moments like his conversation with Elinor that really make him stand out to me. 

S: I’m really liking him more now! I also like Lady Middleton more than I did, even though she still seems rather ‘above it all’, and Sir John doesn’t get on my nerves as much as he did. Mrs. Jennings, however – yeesh. She’s probably supposed to be the comic relief, but land’s sake is she nosy! (Poor Margaret, too, not quite understanding when to hold her tongue!)

R: I think this is one of my least favorite moments with Mrs. Jennings. She’s nosy beyond politeness or tolerance and is far more annoying than funny. Margaret wants to be part of the adult conversations, and she probably hasn’t really been allowed to participate before. But, as you said, she doesn’t know when to keep her mouth shut and feeds Mrs. Jennings’ rumor mill with just enough info to thoroughly embarrass poor Elinor. And poor Elinor is stuck in the middle, trying to manage Marianne and stay out of the center of attention herself.

S: The end of this section leaves me with more questions and suspicions and I’m excited to read on!

R: Two big mysteries – Why did Colonel Brandon really have to leave? (Do you think Mrs. Jennings is right?) And why did Willoughby suddenly take off when he had shown every sign of serious attachment to Marianne? 

S: I know we have a lot more to read, but I’m hoping we’ll find out at least some answers in Chapters 16-20!