(This conversation will contain spoilers for the current chapters.)

S: Oo, Chapter 11 makes my blood boil. I actively dislike Mr. Thorpe now. How dare he not listen to Catherine when she wanted to be let out of the gig! And then to be angry that they had set out too late and blame her brother – I try to not become angry at literary characters but his attitude takes all, especially his lie and the fact he didn’t own up to it (I suppose it’s possible he thought he saw Mr. Tilney but his attitude suggests otherwise). He also scoffed at James for not ‘…keeping a horse and gig of his own’ and scoffed when Catherine mentions James can’t afford them. Does he think the Morlands come from money? It seems, though we know so little of James, that he wouldn’t allow people to think that, but maybe he has, or perhaps it’s all assumption by the Thorpe siblings. That will make for an interesting turn of events if Isabella ends her fancy for James when she discovers the Morlands really don’t have money! 

Speaking of Isabella – ugh. It’s as if neither Thorpe brother nor sister want to ever take responsibility for their own reckless behaviour. I don’t know how Catherine is going to get out of this mess – I feel for her. I also wonder if a lot of the mix ups and misunderstandings and social faux pas on her part is because she has never been taught how to act ‘in town’, if that makes sense.

R: I don’t know why I didn’t expect disaster in this chapter, but I did not. Between the rain and Catherine being bullied into going for a drive with Isabella and their brothers, this was an upsetting chapter. I agree with you completely about Mr. Thorpe. He is aggravating. I feel bad for Catherine, but also think she should have used a little sense by leaving a message for the Tilneys in case they showed up. 

S: Ah yes. I agree with you about leaving a message. That would have perhaps lessened hurt feelings. I am so happy that Catherine was able to clear up the misunderstanding with Mr. Tilney, although I am sorry that she was hurt and humiliated when she was not allowed admittance to see Miss Tilney in order to apologise. My next question is, does General Tilney really admire her as Mr. Thorpe is leading her to believe? I don’t think so. I think Mr. Thorpe is up to his old antics again and I’m sure Catherine’s joy will be dashed soon.

R: I’m also pleased that Catherine was able to clear the air with Mr. Tilney, and I trust that he’ll convey her apologies to his sister and they’ll soon reconcile. I agree that Mr. Thorpe is not being honest in what he said about the General. Before, he seemed to be merely self-centred, but now I’m getting the feeling that he’s deliberately duplicitous. I think he realises that Catherine is interested in Mr. Tilney and is doing what he can to keep them apart.

S: Is this section of the book meant to incite such strong feelings? It must, for I am thoroughly annoyed by not only Mr. and Miss Thorpe, but also by James and Mrs. Allen! How dare they try to manipulate Catherine or, in Mrs. Allen’s case, appear hypocritical! It probably makes me so angry because I have often been in Catherine’s shoes and absolutely hate it, feeling as though I have no voice and I’m in the wrong for a decision I know to be right. People do tend to become angry and manipulative when they know they are in the wrong, so perhaps that is what was going on with Catherine’s supposed friends. 

R: Chapter 13 is infuriating! Mr. Thorpe and James and Isabella are outright gaslighting poor Catherine! And when Mr. Thorpe goes to the Tilneys and changes Catherine’s plans against her will and without her knowledge, I wanted to slap him.

S: Yes! Knock some sense into him, although he’s so narcissistic I don’t know if he’d laugh it off or try to emotionally manipulate and convince that he is in the right. 

I am happy, however, that Catherine chose to leave that group and go apologise to Miss Tilney and explain what happened. I hope the Tilney’s realise she is being bullied and give her grace. I also like that Mr. Allen is proper and she feels safe with him so as to ask him questions about propriety. It’s nice she has one clear advocate in Bath. I thought Mrs. Allen was one, but at the same time she just seems extremely fickle or perhaps simply unaware and self-centred.

R: Agreed, on all counts! I was impressed with Catherine’s fortitude in sticking to her convictions and sense of right in the face of strong peer pressure. I was surprised that Mr. Thorpe was apparently telling her the truth about General Tilney’s impression of her. I’m glad Catherine is able to sort things out with the Tilneys. Mrs. Allen’s wishy-washiness is irritating, but it’s good that her husband has a better grasp of propriety and confirms Catherine’s instincts. I appreciate her inclination to want to warn Isabella off, and I’m a little worried that her not doing so is going to come back around later and cause a problem.

S: The fact that Austen calls Catherine the ‘heroine’ and Mr. Tilney the ‘hero’ at the beginning of Chapter 14 makes me smile. Also, Mr. Tilney’s comment, ‘The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid’ is perhaps one of the most hilarious and beautiful sentences I have read in Austen’s novels, especially since she had no idea how infamous her own novels would one day become!

R: I love that line as well! I do wonder which ‘sister author’ Austen was referencing, if any in particular. I’m glad that Catherine finally got to have her walk with the Tilneys.

S: I wonder if Chapter 14 is the chapter that makes people stop enjoying this book. I admit to being a bit offended at Henry’s discourse on women but at Miss Eleanor’s assurances that he was simply playing and joking around I found the chapter, on the whole, pleasant. I am very happy that Catherine was able to have that time with the Tilneys and I hope it sets the precedent for a good turn of events for her.

R: I agree that Henry’s comments are on the cringy side. Overall, the chapter was enjoyable, but that did put a slight damper on it. I hope that Miss Tilney is right that her brother is only teasing.

S: That’s true! He could have an unkind side to him; I hope not, though, because so far I’ve been enjoying that he is the ‘hero’.  

Chapter 15 is a literary delight and so true to real life! I did wonder if James would propose to Isabella on this outing and if that is why he was so angry with Catherine for not wanting to go with them. Catherine’s unassuming ways are still lost on Isabella who assumes her friend thinks exactly as she does and has guessed her exciting news. I am wondering, however, if Isabella really understands that the Morlands are not a rich family based on some of Isabella’s ponderings: ‘As for myself, I am sure I only wish our situations were reversed. Had I the command of millions, were I mistress of the whole world, your brother would be my only choice.’ It sounds to me as if Isabella thinks James will inherit millions.

R: I was not particularly surprised about James and Isabella becoming engaged. I’m pleased with the development, but I concur with what you say about Isabella’s thinking. Mr. Thorpe seemed under the same impression in a previous chapter when he was wondering how it could be that James couldn’t afford to keep a good horse. I wonder how they could have come to this conclusion.

Also, it was amusing to me that Austen referenced the ‘eight parts of speech’, something that apparently hasn’t changed in over 200 years!

S: I love it!

Then we come to the part where John Thorpe has, essentially, declared there to be an understanding between them. Oh, Catherine! Oh, gentle, naive Catherine! The reader understands what John Thorpe is implying but our heroine, it seems, does not. Or perhaps she does and is trying to be only friendly and not flirty. Either way, I foresee some very big miscommunication in the future! (My goodness, as I read over this discussion I’ve noticed I’ve used too many exclamation marks; yet, what else is one to do when there are so many frustrating instances?!)

R: My worry is that John Thorpe now considers them engaged based on her vague answers! I can’t decide whether he really cares for Catherine or is just putting on a show in this scene.  

S: I agree! I think that’s the most probable assumption. I laughed at the Mr. and Mrs. Allen’s responses regarding James and Isabella’s engagement – they are so pragmatic. I can just hear them saying, ‘Oh of course we figured something like this would happen; yes it makes sense.’